P2L. A term that has been thrown about on the server plenty for one of the forms in which combat roleplay can be resolved - yet it’s often overshadowed by rolling due to the fact that rolling is simply way more straightforward.
Well, what exactly IS P2L?
P2L is simply an abbreviation for “play to lose”, which according to the very term itself is a “concept used by a player to create better drama by not trying to win, instead letting their character lose. It is used in a collaborative play style rather than a competitive play style.”
This is an instrumental part in building the foundation for P2L encounters. But, how exactly do you go about doing it, though?
There are many approaches you can take to it. In the end, the most straightforward way to describe it, though, that’s easy to follow is with what I will call the three C’s:
Courtesy, communication and common sense. So without further ado, let's get into it!
COURTESY
Without a doubt the most important part of P2L; courtesy is simply allowing your opponent to feel like they are having an IMPACT and allowing yourself to TAKE HITS. Not being afraid to LOSE and being respectful toward the person/people involved in a combat scenario. A comparison for example is with roll combat, where commonly, you have someone action to land a blow and both parties roll. Well, what happens when the person who is defending rolls higher? In these cases, the entire action is commonly completely ignored, as though it never happened, commonly leaving a flat feeling of no impact. COURTESY counteracts this, especially in P2L.
For example, if someone throws a punch for your character’s face. Even if your character DODGES it, don’t just half-ass your reply. Really add some WOW factor to it. Exaggerate. Emphasise. It goes a LONG way in making a scene more engaging, even explaining how or why your character is ABLE to evade it helps to ground the encounter.
Let’s take a look at some of the approaches to the same situation:
*** John Doe rolled 64 out of 150.
*** Jane Doe rolled 123 out of 150.
*** Jane Doe dashes behind John Doe.
As you see, no reaction to the punch. A lot of the time, people will not react or put much thought into their actions when involved with rolling simply because - well - it doesn’t matter.
All that matters is rolling higher and abusing mechanics, really. To the extent that hitting anywhere that isn’t the head of your opponent is literally counterproductive and doesn’t infer KO points. So what’s the point in hitting anywhere else, especially if you just want to win? There’s no respect to John’s punch, it is simply as though it never happened in the first place. It doesn’t matter how much thought John puts into his approach if the dice simply says Jane wins.
Don’t even get me started on Grade 11 and under being at an ASTRONOMICAL disadvantage no matter how clever they try to be. It’s a boring “meta” and a way people play to just aim for the win rather than to tell a story.
*** Jane Doe dodges the punch and dashes behind John.
This is… better, but it could be… much more. This reaction is very flat; it acknowledges John’s punch at the very least, but it doesn’t really respect it still, as it’s just reacted to with an immediate follow up. There’s no consequence, no drama, no wow factor. Get it? It gets stale - there are examples in many RP communities of this sort of problem. Think Roblox or the like: You will have people on there just constantly dodge each other’s attacks without much rhyme or reason, which is partly WHY roll combat is enforced - to prevent people from godmodding, the likes.
But it shouldn’t HAVE to be that way! Instead of just, “/me dodges”, think about how to make it feel like there are stakes. Think of how to make your opponent feel COOL, think of how to make the scene more engaging for BOTH of you. The bigger picture is ultra important; do what furthers the narrative!
*** Jane Doe widens her eyes as she sees the punch coming, tilting her body to the side and narrowly avoiding the incoming blow, quickly repositioning behind John!
Do you see the difference? The outcome is exactly the same, intent and all - but the feel of the situation is completely different.
And yes - technically the last two examples are indeed still P2L!
Contrary to a popular belief on the server, you don’t actually have to type massive multi-paragraph responses in combat scenarios in any situation that uses P2L. You can start small and work your way up to the chunkier posts. If you feel creative, THEN go off with the detail, but otherwise it simply follows the same mindset as regular detail RP in school situations. It’s nice, it’s very fun for those that are looking for it (cough, cough, me), but it’s not like it’s REQUIRED.
Regardless, in combat situations, courtesy is extremely important as it makes your opponent feel respected. If someone feels respected, they’ll be more likely to engage with you in future and create further drama with you IC. When something isn’t a contest, it becomes much more relaxed and far less sweaty OOC. Treating it like it’s a story rather than a game, working toward a common goal of creating development between two characters rather than treating it as a die hard competition with your literal OOC honour and integrity on the line. That’s how it should be - it’s a ROLEPLAY server, after all!
And besides, what’s cooler?
A fight where people beat the everloving heck out of each other and have bruises all over themselves, with one person being unable to continue fighting because they’re just THAT beaten up? Or a fight that’s over in two minutes after 3 KO points, all delivered to the head because it’s optimal?
Personally, I feel it’s a no brainer.
COMMUNICATION
An instrumental part in P2L and one of the main things that is established already on the server, communication is very crucial when building an encounter in roleplay. From the little things, to the more important ones.
One of the little things that goes a long way in a P2L encounter for me personally is having the opponent remind me that they are chill. Sometimes, when you trust each other as roleplayers and have no trouble and are just totally locked in with writing a scene there is no need for it whatsoever, but it does help occasionally to just drop a comment.
Great examples of such a thing are when me and some others are in a big P2L fight and someone does a REALLY cool action, we all unanimously just take a moment to go “DAMN THAT WAS A GOOD ACT” or the likes. It’s nice to be friendly with each other, pick at what you like about what your opponent is doing and just vibe. It goes a long way with building a sense of community and respect amongst the participants.
Another example is of outcomes.
My personal preferred way to handle P2L is improv, which is where a fight breaks out with no predetermined outcome. However, not everyone thinks the same way - and it is important to communicate these things before or during an encounter. It’s okay to change your mind about something, just communicate! Maybe you don’t want your character to get a broken arm anymore or you want to change the outcome up a bit. Maybe you want to trade in some capacity, like having your character do some serious damage to a much more skilled opponent at the cost of being out of commission for a while, the likes. It sets up a dynamic!
Hell, even after, you can make plans in future for a get back, you know? It’s that easy.
Various people will have differing ways they wish to handle encounters, coming to an agreement is very helpful and allows for you to come to a satisfying conclusion for both parties easier.
Examples are: Improv, power scaling, preset outcome, etc.
In delinquent RP, for example, there is a softly emphasised “power scaling” of sorts for the more experienced and higher ranking delinquents, or those adult characters that are exceptionally skilled with combat over the years. This is essentially just a rule of thumb, encouraged, to say who is more or less likely to win an encounter. It doesn’t mean it is IMPOSSIBLE to do so, but going into the fight, the odds are set in one side’s favour for narrative and common sense purposes (more info can be found in Punk Hazard for delinquent RP specifically) which ties into the latter point.
COMMON SENSE (LOGIC)
A slightly more grey area in P2L, but one that you should endeavour to try to pursue if you wish to make scenes grounded and satisfying- logic and common sense should come into focus when engaged in a fight.
But what exactly do I mean by common sense? Logic how? It actually ties back into courtesy - making your opponent feel acknowledged!
Let’s say you throw a punch at someone’s head.
*** Jane Doe widens her eyes as she sees the punch coming, tilting her body to her left - getting her face grazed by John’s knuckles. Close call. Instinctively, she shot a brutal swing out toward John’s now exposed right side, targeting his ribcage…!
*** John Doe blocks the blow with his arms, quickly counter-attacking with another punch to the face!
This is… kind of egregious. John’s latter action in this case logically doesn’t make much sense if you think about a few factors. For one, positioning of the characters: John was in the middle of a right hook when Jane threw her swing for his body. Close proximity combined with a large target area, making it very unlikely that John would be able to realistically dodge - and the arm he could block with was busy swinging. Even if he blocked with his other arm, he would have to spin his body around slightly to get his other arm into the equation. The point is, there simply wouldn’t be time for that.
Think RISK vs REWARD and take things with a structured ACTION vs RESPONSE type approach: John threw a punch for Jane’s head. The head is a smaller target region, but if you land a good shot on someone’s face, you can daze them completely or even knock them clean out if you hit perfectly (my character, Kazane, has been on the receiving end of an instant knockout before! It’s pretty funny) which makes it extremely high REWARD of a target location to strike at.
However; due to that smaller target region - it’s easier to react and evade! That is the RISK factor: Jane evaded and sought to capitalise on it with a punishing strike of her own to a much bigger surface area, the ribs. This being a much lower RISK of missing or being blocked.
Plus, due to the fact that his ribs were logically exposed - BOOM! The REWARD actually ends up being higher. Both players read and respect each other’s actions and consider the positioning of each other.
And if John were being COURTEOUS and used COMMON SENSE, he would take the blow in stride and pain RP appropriately. Remember! There’s nothing wrong with getting beaten up or even losing a fight outright!
And of course, if you are ever confused about an opponent’s act - or their intentions - or you want to do something cool that you feel may be a little excessive…
…Remember the previous section? Yeah. COMMUNICATION! It’s THAT easy!
*** Jane Doe widens her eyes as she sees the punch coming, tilting her body to her left - getting her face grazed by John’s knuckles. Close call. Instinctively, she shot a brutal swing out toward John’s now exposed right side, targeting his ribcage…!
*** John Doe scrunched his face up as the blow to his ribcage connected. He did his best to swerve his body out of the way, but there simply was not enough time - knuckles meeting his side with devastating force, causing him to stagger back with the breath utterly knocked out of his lungs!
Now. THIS? This is the JUICY stuff!
Do you have ANY idea how awesome the person playing Jane must be feeling seeing that impact? That COURTESY? That acknowledgement of her actions and the LOGIC behind it? Yeah, of course you do. It can be pretty satisfying.
When both opponents are on the same page and willing to lose, what becomes quite fun is trying to outsmart or outplay your opponent with thoughtful actions and baiting. Whether you directly hint at your character’s baiting intentions and the opponent is courteous enough to “fall for the trap”, or you cleverly lead them into doing a specific action only to spring a surprise on them! P2L can go a LOT of ways, making it a far more dynamic format than simple roll combat.
Another way COMMON SENSE applies is with character builds and differences. For example, a 4’10 character is not going to realistically be able to suplex a 6’6 character - but they will be a MUCH more slippery target. Same as how an adult ex-Yakuza with constant fighting experience would be expected to absolutely destroy an ordinary delinquent thug in an encounter. Can you see how it all ties back to previous points, with “power scaling”?
Keep in mind as well how much your character can take in a fight. Look up anatomy, consider how much it would hurt getting struck in specific spots! Have you ever been hit in the middle of your chest? Yeah, that's the solar plexus and getting struck there can put you out of commission pretty hard. If your leg gets injured, you're going to be unable to put as much support on that side - if your arm is heavily damaged, blocking with that arm or punching with it is going to suck. Keep things in mind! This works both ways; wearing down your opponent gradually is a valid strategy and part of the fun of approaches! Just see how it goes.
For these reasons, I believe P2L is SUPERIOR and encourage people to give it a try if they are on the fence about it! I truly believe that once you get into it proper, it becomes really hard to see much merit in roll combat beyond speed - and even that gets mitigated if you just agree to type shorter handed posts (or both type fast as heck)
Hey there. I made this little guide in an effort to help people understand P2L and be more interested in it. I have a fair bit of experience with writing and combat stuff, so I figured I’d talk about it - since I’m passionate about bringing about more of an appreciation of the less common combat format.
If you are interested in any of what I mentioned or curious about examples, feel free to check in the SRP ZEROS server or get in touch.
I’m happy to help clear things up or even set up random encounters to help people understand the format better and feel less daunted by it. All in all - I hope to push for more P2L on the server.
…That and I would love to see more people pay heed to DelinquentRP! I hope this guide helps.
Oh - and - I'll reply to any questions in the thread too if I get a chance.
Well, what exactly IS P2L?
P2L is simply an abbreviation for “play to lose”, which according to the very term itself is a “concept used by a player to create better drama by not trying to win, instead letting their character lose. It is used in a collaborative play style rather than a competitive play style.”
This is an instrumental part in building the foundation for P2L encounters. But, how exactly do you go about doing it, though?
There are many approaches you can take to it. In the end, the most straightforward way to describe it, though, that’s easy to follow is with what I will call the three C’s:
Courtesy, communication and common sense. So without further ado, let's get into it!
COURTESY
Without a doubt the most important part of P2L; courtesy is simply allowing your opponent to feel like they are having an IMPACT and allowing yourself to TAKE HITS. Not being afraid to LOSE and being respectful toward the person/people involved in a combat scenario. A comparison for example is with roll combat, where commonly, you have someone action to land a blow and both parties roll. Well, what happens when the person who is defending rolls higher? In these cases, the entire action is commonly completely ignored, as though it never happened, commonly leaving a flat feeling of no impact. COURTESY counteracts this, especially in P2L.
For example, if someone throws a punch for your character’s face. Even if your character DODGES it, don’t just half-ass your reply. Really add some WOW factor to it. Exaggerate. Emphasise. It goes a LONG way in making a scene more engaging, even explaining how or why your character is ABLE to evade it helps to ground the encounter.
Let’s take a look at some of the approaches to the same situation:
- Roll style approach
*** John Doe rolled 64 out of 150.
*** Jane Doe rolled 123 out of 150.
*** Jane Doe dashes behind John Doe.
As you see, no reaction to the punch. A lot of the time, people will not react or put much thought into their actions when involved with rolling simply because - well - it doesn’t matter.
All that matters is rolling higher and abusing mechanics, really. To the extent that hitting anywhere that isn’t the head of your opponent is literally counterproductive and doesn’t infer KO points. So what’s the point in hitting anywhere else, especially if you just want to win? There’s no respect to John’s punch, it is simply as though it never happened in the first place. It doesn’t matter how much thought John puts into his approach if the dice simply says Jane wins.
Don’t even get me started on Grade 11 and under being at an ASTRONOMICAL disadvantage no matter how clever they try to be. It’s a boring “meta” and a way people play to just aim for the win rather than to tell a story.
- “P2L” approach, lacking courtesy
*** Jane Doe dodges the punch and dashes behind John.
This is… better, but it could be… much more. This reaction is very flat; it acknowledges John’s punch at the very least, but it doesn’t really respect it still, as it’s just reacted to with an immediate follow up. There’s no consequence, no drama, no wow factor. Get it? It gets stale - there are examples in many RP communities of this sort of problem. Think Roblox or the like: You will have people on there just constantly dodge each other’s attacks without much rhyme or reason, which is partly WHY roll combat is enforced - to prevent people from godmodding, the likes.
But it shouldn’t HAVE to be that way! Instead of just, “/me dodges”, think about how to make it feel like there are stakes. Think of how to make your opponent feel COOL, think of how to make the scene more engaging for BOTH of you. The bigger picture is ultra important; do what furthers the narrative!
- P2L approach, with courtesy.
*** Jane Doe widens her eyes as she sees the punch coming, tilting her body to the side and narrowly avoiding the incoming blow, quickly repositioning behind John!
Do you see the difference? The outcome is exactly the same, intent and all - but the feel of the situation is completely different.
And yes - technically the last two examples are indeed still P2L!
Contrary to a popular belief on the server, you don’t actually have to type massive multi-paragraph responses in combat scenarios in any situation that uses P2L. You can start small and work your way up to the chunkier posts. If you feel creative, THEN go off with the detail, but otherwise it simply follows the same mindset as regular detail RP in school situations. It’s nice, it’s very fun for those that are looking for it (cough, cough, me), but it’s not like it’s REQUIRED.
Regardless, in combat situations, courtesy is extremely important as it makes your opponent feel respected. If someone feels respected, they’ll be more likely to engage with you in future and create further drama with you IC. When something isn’t a contest, it becomes much more relaxed and far less sweaty OOC. Treating it like it’s a story rather than a game, working toward a common goal of creating development between two characters rather than treating it as a die hard competition with your literal OOC honour and integrity on the line. That’s how it should be - it’s a ROLEPLAY server, after all!
And besides, what’s cooler?
A fight where people beat the everloving heck out of each other and have bruises all over themselves, with one person being unable to continue fighting because they’re just THAT beaten up? Or a fight that’s over in two minutes after 3 KO points, all delivered to the head because it’s optimal?
Personally, I feel it’s a no brainer.
COMMUNICATION
An instrumental part in P2L and one of the main things that is established already on the server, communication is very crucial when building an encounter in roleplay. From the little things, to the more important ones.
One of the little things that goes a long way in a P2L encounter for me personally is having the opponent remind me that they are chill. Sometimes, when you trust each other as roleplayers and have no trouble and are just totally locked in with writing a scene there is no need for it whatsoever, but it does help occasionally to just drop a comment.
Great examples of such a thing are when me and some others are in a big P2L fight and someone does a REALLY cool action, we all unanimously just take a moment to go “DAMN THAT WAS A GOOD ACT” or the likes. It’s nice to be friendly with each other, pick at what you like about what your opponent is doing and just vibe. It goes a long way with building a sense of community and respect amongst the participants.
Another example is of outcomes.
My personal preferred way to handle P2L is improv, which is where a fight breaks out with no predetermined outcome. However, not everyone thinks the same way - and it is important to communicate these things before or during an encounter. It’s okay to change your mind about something, just communicate! Maybe you don’t want your character to get a broken arm anymore or you want to change the outcome up a bit. Maybe you want to trade in some capacity, like having your character do some serious damage to a much more skilled opponent at the cost of being out of commission for a while, the likes. It sets up a dynamic!
Hell, even after, you can make plans in future for a get back, you know? It’s that easy.
Various people will have differing ways they wish to handle encounters, coming to an agreement is very helpful and allows for you to come to a satisfying conclusion for both parties easier.
Examples are: Improv, power scaling, preset outcome, etc.
In delinquent RP, for example, there is a softly emphasised “power scaling” of sorts for the more experienced and higher ranking delinquents, or those adult characters that are exceptionally skilled with combat over the years. This is essentially just a rule of thumb, encouraged, to say who is more or less likely to win an encounter. It doesn’t mean it is IMPOSSIBLE to do so, but going into the fight, the odds are set in one side’s favour for narrative and common sense purposes (more info can be found in Punk Hazard for delinquent RP specifically) which ties into the latter point.
COMMON SENSE (LOGIC)
A slightly more grey area in P2L, but one that you should endeavour to try to pursue if you wish to make scenes grounded and satisfying- logic and common sense should come into focus when engaged in a fight.
But what exactly do I mean by common sense? Logic how? It actually ties back into courtesy - making your opponent feel acknowledged!
Let’s say you throw a punch at someone’s head.
- P2L lacking common sense
*** Jane Doe widens her eyes as she sees the punch coming, tilting her body to her left - getting her face grazed by John’s knuckles. Close call. Instinctively, she shot a brutal swing out toward John’s now exposed right side, targeting his ribcage…!
*** John Doe blocks the blow with his arms, quickly counter-attacking with another punch to the face!
This is… kind of egregious. John’s latter action in this case logically doesn’t make much sense if you think about a few factors. For one, positioning of the characters: John was in the middle of a right hook when Jane threw her swing for his body. Close proximity combined with a large target area, making it very unlikely that John would be able to realistically dodge - and the arm he could block with was busy swinging. Even if he blocked with his other arm, he would have to spin his body around slightly to get his other arm into the equation. The point is, there simply wouldn’t be time for that.
Think RISK vs REWARD and take things with a structured ACTION vs RESPONSE type approach: John threw a punch for Jane’s head. The head is a smaller target region, but if you land a good shot on someone’s face, you can daze them completely or even knock them clean out if you hit perfectly (my character, Kazane, has been on the receiving end of an instant knockout before! It’s pretty funny) which makes it extremely high REWARD of a target location to strike at.
However; due to that smaller target region - it’s easier to react and evade! That is the RISK factor: Jane evaded and sought to capitalise on it with a punishing strike of her own to a much bigger surface area, the ribs. This being a much lower RISK of missing or being blocked.
Plus, due to the fact that his ribs were logically exposed - BOOM! The REWARD actually ends up being higher. Both players read and respect each other’s actions and consider the positioning of each other.
And if John were being COURTEOUS and used COMMON SENSE, he would take the blow in stride and pain RP appropriately. Remember! There’s nothing wrong with getting beaten up or even losing a fight outright!
And of course, if you are ever confused about an opponent’s act - or their intentions - or you want to do something cool that you feel may be a little excessive…
…Remember the previous section? Yeah. COMMUNICATION! It’s THAT easy!
- P2L with common sense
*** Jane Doe widens her eyes as she sees the punch coming, tilting her body to her left - getting her face grazed by John’s knuckles. Close call. Instinctively, she shot a brutal swing out toward John’s now exposed right side, targeting his ribcage…!
*** John Doe scrunched his face up as the blow to his ribcage connected. He did his best to swerve his body out of the way, but there simply was not enough time - knuckles meeting his side with devastating force, causing him to stagger back with the breath utterly knocked out of his lungs!
Now. THIS? This is the JUICY stuff!
Do you have ANY idea how awesome the person playing Jane must be feeling seeing that impact? That COURTESY? That acknowledgement of her actions and the LOGIC behind it? Yeah, of course you do. It can be pretty satisfying.
When both opponents are on the same page and willing to lose, what becomes quite fun is trying to outsmart or outplay your opponent with thoughtful actions and baiting. Whether you directly hint at your character’s baiting intentions and the opponent is courteous enough to “fall for the trap”, or you cleverly lead them into doing a specific action only to spring a surprise on them! P2L can go a LOT of ways, making it a far more dynamic format than simple roll combat.
Another way COMMON SENSE applies is with character builds and differences. For example, a 4’10 character is not going to realistically be able to suplex a 6’6 character - but they will be a MUCH more slippery target. Same as how an adult ex-Yakuza with constant fighting experience would be expected to absolutely destroy an ordinary delinquent thug in an encounter. Can you see how it all ties back to previous points, with “power scaling”?
Keep in mind as well how much your character can take in a fight. Look up anatomy, consider how much it would hurt getting struck in specific spots! Have you ever been hit in the middle of your chest? Yeah, that's the solar plexus and getting struck there can put you out of commission pretty hard. If your leg gets injured, you're going to be unable to put as much support on that side - if your arm is heavily damaged, blocking with that arm or punching with it is going to suck. Keep things in mind! This works both ways; wearing down your opponent gradually is a valid strategy and part of the fun of approaches! Just see how it goes.
For these reasons, I believe P2L is SUPERIOR and encourage people to give it a try if they are on the fence about it! I truly believe that once you get into it proper, it becomes really hard to see much merit in roll combat beyond speed - and even that gets mitigated if you just agree to type shorter handed posts (or both type fast as heck)
Hey there. I made this little guide in an effort to help people understand P2L and be more interested in it. I have a fair bit of experience with writing and combat stuff, so I figured I’d talk about it - since I’m passionate about bringing about more of an appreciation of the less common combat format.
If you are interested in any of what I mentioned or curious about examples, feel free to check in the SRP ZEROS server or get in touch.
I’m happy to help clear things up or even set up random encounters to help people understand the format better and feel less daunted by it. All in all - I hope to push for more P2L on the server.
…That and I would love to see more people pay heed to DelinquentRP! I hope this guide helps.
Oh - and - I'll reply to any questions in the thread too if I get a chance.
