Character Authorization Feedback

[fungi]

IGN: fungusfeaster, EMS66

DATE: 7/8/2020

WHAT YOU NEED TO SUGGEST OR MENTION:

A quick warning: this thread contains discussion of suicide and the pain it entails, please do not read on if this will make you uncomfortable. Most of us who play on this server live in a demographic that is at-risk to this condition and I would not wish it upon anyone, no matter their situation. Please take care of yourselves, your friends, and your family.


I believe that you should have to apply for suicidal intent. I work as a Psychiatrist for the Karakura Hospital on my EMS66 account and I can't even recall how many times someone has come in and attempted to smash their head against the wall or break a window and jump out of it without any real cause. I have spoken with some of my colleagues about this behavior, and most of everyone who I have spoken to have agreed that this unrealistic and offensive trend is worrisome and downright annoying to those who have to deal with it.


Just to clarify I'm not speaking about suicidal ideation where you believe that you ought to die, I'm talking about real suicidal intentions where you are walking to the top of a building and preparing to jump off. A lot of people begin to roleplay out suicide with little understanding of what it actually entails. Severely suicidal people do not live glamorous lives. They do not have healthy relationships and they do not function like a normal person. They go through a serious amount of mental pain, pain which can make them separate themselves from their families and make decisions about their life that are less than fun to roleplay out. I have rarely seen a severely suicidal character on this server act in a truly realistic manner. Suicidal people don't stay calm when they are confronted about their feelings and intentions, and they do not lash out maliciously and seriously at the people who attempt to help them. They do not just jump off a building because they just don't care anymore. They do not go through with the act with no emotion as if it's just another daily task that they need to carry out. These seem to be the most common scenarios I see. Another very unrealistic suicidal scenario is a character that continues to desperately look for ways to kill themselves for days at a time. Serious periods of suicidal intent are fleeting if there is no severe event happening in a person’s life to cause them to believe that they need to die. In a case where the person has a terminal illness or has done something against the law, they may feel like they desperately need to die as soon as possible, but most people who suffer extreme depression or other mood disorders go through periods of time lasting a few hours where they seek out a way to end their life. The feeling passes after a little while in 9/10 cases.


Furthermore, in this thread where it speaks of what you do and don't need to apply for it lists that mood disorders, anxiety disorders, substance abuse disorders, behavioral and emotional, and obsessive-compulsive disorder are allowed to be roleplayed without application. Underneath them, it states "Anything more severe you have to apply for." Suicidal intention is possibly the most severe and tormenting condition of the mind possible. To feel so ill that you believe you need to take your own life is not a simple condition of the mind. It is pain, and pain that deserves to be respected and roleplayed out properly. I think that this thread states rather clearly that it should be applied for, so why don't we count it that way?


Look, I'm not talking about everyone; I've seen a large number of people who put good reasoning behind their actions. However, there are a lot of characters on this server and very unrealistically a good deal of them seriously consider suicide. This is very untrue to reality and just plain offensive at times. A person who has decided that their character is going to attempt to kill themself should be able to explain why: is there a severe illness or mental condition behind the urge? Has a tragic event in their life caused them to want to hurt themselves? If the answers to these two questions are no the character should not be able to kill themself. People should have to actually be forced to put a bit of thought behind this. For those who are roleplaying out this condition reasonably, good on you. All you would need to do is apply with your reasoning and you will be able to carry on as normal. You have nothing to worry about. I know that you yourself are doing a good job, that doesn't mean everyone else is. As someone who encounters this behavior more often than most, I believe it is my responsibility to maintain whatever realism this server has left.


Thank you for considering my contribution. I don't really feel like arguing with anyone about this but feel free to share your thoughts below.


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[HighlightedTwin]

I want to agree with the idea but part of me also disagrees with some of the things said.

I have to agree that sometimes, people would roleplay this whole thing out unrealistically so it may be ideal to make people apply.
But in my opinion, seeing people have to apply just to have suicidal intentions is literally beyond me. What I mean is, rather than being concerned about if that person can roleplay it properly, I would be more concerned about the person behind the screen trying to apply for it. My theory, of course, it that some if not most characters on SRP portray a part or even the whole person behind the screen and if that person behind the screen is in fact, suicidal, I would be more concerned about them having to sit for 5-10 writing a whole application, explaining their backstory and reasoning for taking their character's life.

If you want to talk about realism with this case, understand that Japan has a whole suicide forest. Japan has one of the highest suicide rates and it's depressing to even hear that. I understand that the intention of this suggestion is to better roleplay in this department so that the hospital staff can also have a good roleplay experience but at the same time, this seems like it's only appealing to a small group of people (EMS I mean). The roleplay should be a good experience for everyone involved. If you can clearly see that a person is roleplaying this in the most unrealistic way, you can call it out and even get staff to help prove your point about it. I understand that the hospital staff doesn't want to have to deal with those who think their way of roleplaying this is okay, but people who work in this kind of field, dealing with people with depression and have suicidal thoughts, is their job to help as much as they can by assigning them to therapy or even giving them medication to ease the pain.

Suicidal people don't stay calm when they are confronted about their feelings and intentions, and they do not lash out maliciously and seriously at the people who attempt to help them. They do not just jump off a building because they just don't care anymore. They do not go through with the act with no emotion as if it's just another daily task that they need to carry out. These seem to be the most common scenarios I see.

Now regarding how people act with their suicidal intentions, I would like to say, there are people out there, especially in the world who would do these kinds of things. There are suicidal people who would stay calm about it, maybe some who would breakdown and those who would yell at the person who wants to help just so they can try and hide their true emotions and feelings. Even if it's just in a show or movie, there's people who would try to fight the person helping them stay away from a rooftop because all they believe at that point is that suicide is their only answer. If you are going to say that, suicidal people (meaning all suicidal people) aren't like this, then I would have to say you are a bit wrong in my opinion because there are some people who would act like this either way. I am not saying everyone would but I am saying those who really want to hide their feelings or even just fight their way to jump actually exist.

In the end, I think it would make sense that you would want people to apply for this but I just believe it's very concerning someone who has to go this far to make their character kill themselves and I would want to question if that person is actually okay. Or rather than having to apply for it, maybe set some rules for this kind of roleplay or maybe even a guide.

 

[fungi]

I'm just going to reply to that paragraph by paragraph:

Paragraph one. I think if someone in actuality is suicidal then roleplaying out a suicide would be far more triggering than explaining why a character is suicidal. When I myself was in a dark place before my attempt I ran from every mention of suicide in SchoolRP as much as I could. Hell, when I was seriously considering hurting myself I didn't even play the server. I really don't think that is a legitimate reason against having people apply for suicidal intentions. Also, I think you sort of missed the point: I don't mean suicidal thoughts. I mean suicidal intentions, where someone is coming in and bashing their head against the wall intending to die. Anyone can have suicidal thoughts. Suicidal intentions are far rarer.

Paragraph two: First off, of course there is a high rate of suicide in Japan. What you aren't mentioning is that the majority of Japanese suicides are honor suicides. I have never in my time as a Psychiatrist seen an honor suicide. That in itself just shows how unrealistic suicide is played. As far as calling staff goes, roleplaying suicide in anian unrealistic manner is not a staff matter. Staff can't do anything about it and the whole point of instituting this rule would be so that they can. We do try to help these people. We do try to give them medication. Nine times out of ten when we deal with these unrealistic roleplayers they either deny it or say that it didn't do anything to help them. They refuse treatment and they try to laugh at staff when they attempt to give them therapy. I don't think you realize how frustrating this is.

Paragraph 3: look. Of course there are going to be cases where people show no emotion confronting suicide, but let me tell you how unusual it is. The whole reason I am so passionate about this topic is because I was in a mental hospital. No person there could talk about their attempt without showing some sort of feeling in their words. Either anger, sadness, or fear was painted on their faces. I was friends with a schizophrenic, even they cried when they spoke about it. They certainly didn't laugh (as I see often) or joke about what they intended to do. Earlier you stated that you believe it would be harmful to people actually considering suicide to apply. I disagree. I believe that the amount of downright disrespect for this terrible, terrible pain is so offensive and so disturbing. You wouldn't allow anyone else to roleplay out a condition or someones race and just use movie stereotypes to determine how they act. I believe that it would be respectful to people who have actually been touched by suicide to see around them familiar faces. Faces that make sense to them. Not faces that parody the hardest thing they have ever gone through.

Paragraph 4: I wonder if people who roleplay out suicide are alright as well. I can almost spot who is suicidal by their character, because they roleplay with respect and realism. Suicide is a terrible thing. It targets us young people specifically. For that reason it is even more important that we deal with it like a sensitive topic and that we don't glorify it and accidentally end up encouraging it. Suicide is not glamorous. Suicide is mental illness. All kinds of mental illness deserves respect. Also, just saying- I'm pretty sure we're all aware that basically no new players read the guides. Why would it be any different if we put one out about suicide?

 

[HighlightedTwin]

I'm just going to reply to that paragraph by paragraph:

Paragraph one. I think if someone in actuality is suicidal then roleplaying out a suicide would be far more triggering than explaining why a character is suicidal. When I myself was in a dark place before my attempt I ran from every mention of suicide in SchoolRP as much as I could. Hell, when I was seriously considering hurting myself I didn't even play the server. I really don't think that is a legitimate reason against having people apply for suicidal intentions. Also, I think you sort of missed the point: I don't mean suicidal thoughts. I mean suicidal intentions, where someone is coming in and bashing their head against the wall intending to die. Anyone can have suicidal thoughts. Suicidal intentions are far rarer.

Paragraph two: First off, of course there is a high rate of suicide in Japan. What you aren't mentioning is that the majority of Japanese suicides are honor suicides. I have never in my time as a Psychiatrist seen an honor suicide. That in itself just shows how unrealistic suicide is played. As far as calling staff goes, roleplaying suicide in anian unrealistic manner is not a staff matter. Staff can't do anything about it and the whole point of instituting this rule would be so that they can. We do try to help these people. We do try to give them medication. Nine times out of ten when we deal with these unrealistic roleplayers they either deny it or say that it didn't do anything to help them. They refuse treatment and they try to laugh at staff when they attempt to give them therapy. I don't think you realize how frustrating this is.

Paragraph 3: look. Of course there are going to be cases where people show no emotion confronting suicide, but let me tell you how unusual it is. The whole reason I am so passionate about this topic is because I was in a mental hospital. No person there could talk about their attempt without showing some sort of feeling in their words. Either anger, sadness, or fear was painted on their faces. I was friends with a schizophrenic, even they cried when they spoke about it. They certainly didn't laugh (as I see often) or joke about what they intended to do. Earlier you stated that you believe it would be harmful to people actually considering suicide to apply. I disagree. I believe that the amount of downright disrespect for this terrible, terrible pain is so offensive and so disturbing. You wouldn't allow anyone else to roleplay out a condition or someones race and just use movie stereotypes to determine how they act. I believe that it would be respectful to people who have actually been touched by suicide to see around them familiar faces. Faces that make sense to them. Not faces that parody the hardest thing they have ever gone through.

Paragraph 4: I wonder if people who roleplay out suicide are alright as well. I can almost spot who is suicidal by their character, because they roleplay with respect and realism. Suicide is a terrible thing. It targets us young people specifically. For that reason it is even more important that we deal with it like a sensitive topic and that we don't glorify it and accidentally end up encouraging it. Suicide is not glamorous. Suicide is mental illness. All kinds of mental illness deserves respect. Also, just saying- I'm pretty sure we're all aware that basically no new players read the guides. Why would it be any different if we put one out about suicide?

I am not against your idea. This helped me see another perspective of what you meant. Initially, I guess I wanted to disagree as I seemed so bothered by the idea of having to see people actually sit and write an application about why and how their character only saw suicide as the answer, intending to hurt themselves eventually leading to their suicide on the server one day. I was also very concerned about the people having to write about that as well.

I, myself, have been depressed for a couple of years nearly getting to the point of suicidal thoughts and one day decided to roleplay it for one of my old characters. But eventually, I stopped as it only just got darker and saddening and decided to kill off that character by allowing someone else to end it. I don't disagree with you that it is offensive to see how people could just jokingly talk about suicide and even do it like it's nothing. Especially when I have to randomly walk onto campus seeing people fall from the rooftop and many people down below encouraging the whole thing.

I understand it's not easy trying to help those who don't even understand the actual pain behind it all. I don't want you to think everything I said was to go completely against your idea as it was mainly just what I believed at the time. Even if the guide isn't read by the newer players, it would still be nice to have it around so others who aren't so new can understand it as well. That small guide can even encourage those to get help and speak to someone whenever they feel low.

 

[fungi]

I am not against your idea. This helped me see another perspective of what you meant. Initially, I guess I wanted to disagree as I seemed so bothered by the idea of having to see people actually sit and write an application about why and how their character only saw suicide as the answer, intending to hurt themselves eventually leading to their suicide on the server one day. I was also very concerned about the people having to write about that as well.

I, myself, have been depressed for a couple of years nearly getting to the point of suicidal thoughts and one day decided to roleplay it for one of my old characters. But eventually, I stopped as it only just got darker and saddening and decided to kill off that character by allowing someone else to end it. I don't disagree with you that it is offensive to see how people could just jokingly talk about suicide and even do it like it's nothing. Especially when I have to randomly walk onto campus seeing people fall from the rooftop and many people down below encouraging the whole thing.

I understand it's not easy trying to help those who don't even understand the actual pain behind it all. I don't want you to think everything I said was to go completely against your idea as it was mainly just what I believed at the time. Even if the guide isn't read by the newer players, it would still be nice to have it around so others who aren't so new can understand it as well. That small guide can even encourage those to get help and speak to someone whenever they feel low.

A guide is a nice idea. Maybe I'm doing this because I myself am too fragile at the moment to handle what I see but I ultimately believe that for the good of others in the same situation these people need to be stopped. It's very hard to explain just how frustrating it is to deal with someone who believes that they are suicidal but has no reasoning for it and won't accept treatment or won't listen to how the treatment should be working for them. I still believe that suicidal intent is severe enough that it needs to be applied for.

 

[HighlightedTwin]

A guide is a nice idea. Maybe I'm doing this because I myself am too fragile at the moment to handle what I see but I ultimately believe that for the good of others in the same situation these people need to be stopped. It's very hard to explain just how frustrating it is to deal with someone who believes that they are suicidal but has no reasoning for it and won't accept treatment or won't listen to how the treatment should be working for them. I still believe that suicidal intent is severe enough that it needs to be applied for.

I shall agree then :> for the sake of the community and for the sake of those struggling in life as well.

 

[RoseRP]

I'm going to go ahead and say I agree quite a bit with this, I'm not sure how it would work with 'Suicidal intent' on how/why their character is suicidal, or even those that want to roleplay that out without any sort of reason, clue, or even agreeing to treatment in the first place. Overall I've always had the idea and agreed with others that it should be a rule to make it where Suicide isn't allowed in any main area's [Hospital, School, KPD, Safe-Zones.] but if it's something they want to roleplay out in private then that's on them. For quite a few of us - this can be considered a major trigger for bad memories and I'll admit it's effected me a bit as horrifying.

I myself think they should apply - or it should be made into a rule where they can't perform it in major places. They can treatment for Suicidal intentions with the fact that they seriously have to be going in for treatment, and not joking around. It's not funny and or cool, and it really shouldn't be a trend in the first place.

+1​

 

[Im6]

DENIED

- Moderating whether or not 200+ players are roleplaying out mental disorders they've applied for on the forums is a task & near enough impossible in itself. Due to this instead we've made all illnesses, mental or physical not having to be applied for, any obvious abuse or FailRP that comes with this can be moderated however.​