Reverse The Gang RP Limits Back

[TheEz8Fury]

What's your Minecraft Username?: TheEz8Fury
What's the title of your suggestion?: Reverse The Gang RP Limits Back

What's your suggestion?:
Reversing A Recent Gang RP Update

How will this benefit the server and community?:
First of all, it was an outright horrible idea to even think of reducing the number of members in any gang. These are people's friends, writing partners, and storylines; to suddenly take a knife and chop it all off is simply abhorrent.

Even more so, the second worst part of this idea is to permit an imbalance between gangs. There is no reason that an organized, street, or amateur gang should have a handicap that others do not have. Make every gang have equal members. Not "25" for organized, and "20" for everybody else. That's just unfair, and directly hurts gang roleplay; because, eventually, there WILL be a gang that has the ability to put down everyone else, because they have those additional five member slots.

At least bring it back to 30 for EVERYBODY. That'll take away 5 members from gangs that are 35/35, of which there are around 1-3(?) of. Altogether, that'll likely give around an exodus of 10-30 gang roleplayers (if we're lucky) the chance to branch out and actually start their own gangs (which they won't).

I'm in strong favor of reversing this decision completely, and I believe the majority of people who actually gang ROLEPLAY will agree.

Immertreu, in my experience, brought ~20+ people to events quite often; this will rarely be seen ever again, and now what people formerly strived to achieve will now be handicapped and regulated to something objectively lesser than before. Additionally, Immertreu is proof that gang roleplay CAN be narrative based writing, and that numbers are NOT just a means to win brawls.

The gang roleplay update, aside from the member count cap, was pretty good. Don't remove sharps though. I know that's where this is headed when people say "reduce gorey combat". Beating people to death with bats is just as bad.

 

[Itz_Nami]

+1

 

[DarkEclipic]

-1
having smaller gangs will have people take charge and create more roleplay. This isn't a monopoly, this is part of the community. There has been next to no roleplay in Gang/Crime RP in quite sometime and only people getting on to get perms, call their buddies, do them, then leave. You might say 'oh well I use to', I don't care about what YOU have done. I am talking about the MAJORITY of people. you, in this case, are the minority

Before you reply to my message, please read my signature.

 

[Nylu]

+1/-1 (leaning toward -1)

These updates may not be permanent, and if the mentioned problems do start to appear, I'm sure they'd fix things. However, my -1 stems from the fact that I genuinely believe 30 players is a tad too many. +1 because I'd be more in favor if it were 20 or 25 people universally for both sides, as I agree 5 extra slots can be the deciding factor on why a gang can no longer rival another. But 30 people make it so there's less room for smaller gangs to shine. This has always been a problem, whether seen or not, and this (at the very least) allows more gangs a chance. I don't know how you feel about this, but I advocate for more gangs for more roleplay opportunities instead of getting stuck in that loop we were in during 2022, where gangs were being made and disbanded left, right, and center due to competition. I know it could be said that maybe they didn't have enough dedication, but motivation varies player-to-player. It does suck that people have to be removed from gangs as well, and this was a tough decision to have made that even I wouldn't have ever agreed to, so your sentiment there is felt.

As for the last point, I'm 80% sure that they didn't mention the sharp part because they thought it was too gory, as no one details the extent of an injury, which is against the rules (and people who do usually get warned). This was, from experience over the last few weeks, due to people refusing to roleplay during turf battles. For example, just a week ago, Masahiko got involved in a scuffle at the beachside. The people we were up against, #1, didn't want us to detail our actions, and kept saying we were stalling because we were trying to write long actions, and #2, made it more about PVP rather than the actual roleplay. No plot or story was being made there. It was just one sentence actions, or being yelled at for trying to roleplay instead. I'd much rather prefer scenarios where it's based in roleplay instead.

 

[twenie1]

Overall. As much as I'd like to give this my full support. I'm shying away from it and leaning towards a -1.

I feel like this new GangRP Update is what CrimeRP/GangRP needs. There is no doubt about it that the member count was quite low after the drop. But, 20 was still a decision made with everyones best interests in mind and that now even after bringing it up, even if only 25, was an improvement, and a better one than bringing it up to 30 - 35 if you ask me.

Something I feel needs to be addressed is how Gang's seem to be going full-bias with high-ranking spots and with who they are letting in their gangs. It's understandable that people would want to have their head-honcho spot's full off reliable and trustworthy people, but those are opportunties that any other person deserves to have a go at. It's not a way of saying "Oh, lets make them a high-rank despite lack of effort". It's a way of saying "Hey, let's guide these more unexperienced players into the Gang Roleplayers they can be". If we just let the same people lead, and let the same people fill these high-ranking spots, that in itself will kill GangRP. Why? Because, like you said, not everybody wants to lead a Gang and face the stress of what entails that. Unexperienced players will inevitably turn away from GangRP, and look elsewhere for Roleplay; SportsRP, Factions, etc. It's happened before, on multiple occassions.

There is no doubt about it that Immertreu was a one of a kind gang. It achieved feats that haven't been accomplished in a long time, it brought along a fresh outlook on roleplay. What a gang should be. Roleplay-Based, active and effort. But, to say that reaching 20 members for a gang hasn't been done before, is outright apalling. Immertreu wasn't the first, they no doubt won't be the last. It just makes it sound like your gang was the only one to bring well established roleplay, when that simply isn't the case.

The way GangRP was directing to was half-arsed attitudes, rolling over anything, and a lack of effort. Because simply put, smaller gangs which was much like Immertreu in the senses off being: well-written, full-effort, and unique morals just wasn't getting the foothold they needed on the server to bring the kind of roleplay Cam and Infi are trying to bring to fruition. We can't build a gang roleplay community built on effort, roleplay-based interactions and the want to participate, souly on Immertreu, Manhanto, and Parabellum. Because the way it was all heading, the smaller gangs wasn't going to get anywhere and eventually it'd all die off with nowhere to go, unless the same leads make another gang afterwards, but again, it'll just repeat all this.


I do agree with you though on the fact that sharps shouldn't be taken out the game. On occassion, sharp weapons can be used for deliberately, well-written lore and event's that could require that type of weaponry.


_________________________________________________________________________________________

This was just my take on it all, and the suggestion made. In my eyes, staff are heading in the right direction. We just need to give it all a chance and see where it leads before making claims that it's going "Kill GangRP" and "It's going to be the nail in the coffin".
​

 

[TheEz8Fury]

Overall. As much as I'd like to give this my full support. I'm shying away from it and leaning towards a -1.

I feel like this new GangRP Update is what CrimeRP/GangRP needs. There is no doubt about it that the member count was quite low after the drop. But, 20 was still a decision made with everyones best interests in mind and that now even after bringing it up, even if only 25, was an improvement, and a better one than bringing it up to 30 - 35 if you ask me.

Something I feel needs to be addressed is how Gang's seem to be going full-bias with high-ranking spots and with who they are letting in their gangs. It's understandable that people would want to have their head-honcho spot's full off reliable and trustworthy people, but those are opportunties that any other person deserves to have a go at. It's not a way of saying "Oh, lets make them a high-rank despite lack of effort". It's a way of saying "Hey, let's guide these more unexperienced players into the Gang Roleplayers they can be". If we just let the same people lead, and let the same people fill these high-ranking spots, that in itself will kill GangRP. Why? Because, like you said, not everybody wants to lead a Gang and face the stress of what entails that. Unexperienced players will inevitably turn away from GangRP, and look elsewhere for Roleplay; SportsRP, Factions, etc. It's happened before, on multiple occassions.

There is no doubt about it that Immertreu was a one of a kind gang. It achieved feats that haven't been accomplished in a long time, it brought along a fresh outlook on roleplay. What a gang should be. Roleplay-Based, active and effort. But, to say that reaching 20 members for a gang hasn't been done before, is outright apalling. Immertreu wasn't the first, they no doubt won't be the last. It just makes it sound like your gang was the only one to bring well established roleplay, when that simply isn't the case.

The way GangRP was directing to was half-arsed attitudes, rolling over anything, and a lack of effort. Because simply put, smaller gangs which was much like Immertreu in the senses off being: well-written, full-effort, and unique morals just wasn't getting the foothold they needed on the server to bring the kind of roleplay Cam and Infi are trying to bring to fruition. We can't build a gang roleplay community built on effort, roleplay-based interactions and the want to participate, souly on Immertreu, Manhanto, and Parabellum. Because the way it was all heading, the smaller gangs wasn't going to get anywhere and eventually it'd all die off with nowhere to go, unless the same leads make another gang afterwards, but again, it'll just repeat all this.


I do agree with you though on the fact that sharps shouldn't be taken out the game. On occassion, sharp weapons can be used for deliberately, well-written lore and event's that could require that type of weaponry.


_________________________________________________________________________________________

This was just my take on it all, and the suggestion made. In my eyes, staff are heading in the right direction. We just need to give it all a chance and see where it leads before making claims that it's going "Kill GangRP" and "It's going to be the nail in the coffin".
​

"to say that reaching 20 members for a gang hasn't been done before, is outright apalling."

You should reread what I said. I said that there will never be a gang of 30+ members able to assemble ~20+ members (24 was our top, iirc) once again. This is factual, because now the member count is regulated to 25. Getting a gang to attend with a 20/25 ratio will be extremely rare, whereas prior to this update, it at least had a vague chance of transpiring.

Just my take, but if your smaller gang can't appeal to people, it should either be taken in a different direction, advertised to more new people, or draw upon other resources that weren't previously utilized. It's a widely believed take that none of the "new gang rpers" who are being kicked from gangs due to the member count are not going to be flocking to White Knuckle to delinquent rp in droves. That isn't because White Knuckle is bad, or should change, or hasn't even been advertised to more new people. It isn't any failing or fault of your own. It solely falls down to mismanagement of the new update. Forcefully kicking 10 members from gangs that are 35/35 won't make ALL of these people suddenly encouraged to start their new gangs, or even encourage people to join those new gangs. It's a slap to the face, if anything else.

People are saying "this will help new gangs" or "this helps the majority" haven't seen that a fairly considerable bulk of the community just straight up disagree with the notion.

That said, I think something needs to be said about people just giving away higher up spots without any roleplay or IC motive. That stuff does actually hurt gang roleplay, because it encourages gang hopping and opportunism OOCly; rather than roleplay or IC developments.

 

[TheEz8Fury]

-1
having smaller gangs will have people take charge and create more roleplay. This isn't a monopoly, this is part of the community. There has been next to no roleplay in Gang/Crime RP in quite sometime and only people getting on to get perms, call their buddies, do them, then leave. You might say 'oh well I use to', I don't care about what YOU have done. I am talking about the MAJORITY of people. you, in this case, are the minority

Before you reply to my message, please read my signature.

I've never even seen you interact with my so called "minority" in any large capacity, and I doubt that you've interacted with every single gang roleplayer to say you've interacted with the actual majority meaningfully. If all you see is perms, then you probably aren't gravitating to the right circles. Even if that was the case, why are some sections of the community that value roleplay being punished? You claim that this isn't a monopoly, and is part of the community, but imposing restrictions and limitations on the community is monopolizing it.

I've seen no evidence that suggests that new gangs will actually thrive by this update. This is all solely a hypothetical without any basis or research done into actually seeing how it'll affect the community in the long term. If you're correct, which I hope you are, then congratulations. Either way, this update shouldn't have been made due to the detriment it has in the short term for gangs objectively speaking.

 

[TheEz8Fury]

+1/-1 (leaning toward -1)

These updates may not be permanent, and if the mentioned problems do start to appear, I'm sure they'd fix things. However, my -1 stems from the fact that I genuinely believe 30 players is a tad too many. +1 because I'd be more in favor if it were 20 or 25 people universally for both sides, as I agree 5 extra slots can be the deciding factor on why a gang can no longer rival another. But 30 people make it so there's less room for smaller gangs to shine. This has always been a problem, whether seen or not, and this (at the very least) allows more gangs a chance. I don't know how you feel about this, but I advocate for more gangs for more roleplay opportunities instead of getting stuck in that loop we were in during 2022, where gangs were being made and disbanded left, right, and center due to competition. I know it could be said that maybe they didn't have enough dedication, but motivation varies player-to-player. It does suck that people have to be removed from gangs as well, and this was a tough decision to have made that even I wouldn't have ever agreed to, so your sentiment there is felt.

As for the last point, I'm 80% sure that they didn't mention the sharp part because they thought it was too gory, as no one details the extent of an injury, which is against the rules (and people who do usually get warned). This was, from experience over the last few weeks, due to people refusing to roleplay during turf battles. For example, just a week ago, Masahiko got involved in a scuffle at the beachside. The people we were up against, #1, didn't want us to detail our actions, and kept saying we were stalling because we were trying to write long actions, and #2, made it more about PVP rather than the actual roleplay. No plot or story was being made there. It was just one sentence actions, or being yelled at for trying to roleplay instead. I'd much rather prefer scenarios where it's based in roleplay instead.

That sucks. I hope you guys have better luck in the future trying to get roleplay based scenarios in the beachside. You guys have earned that much- proper roleplay, that is.

 

[twenie1]

"to say that reaching 20 members for a gang hasn't been done before, is outright apalling."

You should reread what I said. I said that there will never be a gang of 30+ members able to assemble ~20+ members (24 was our top, iirc) once again. This is factual, because now the member count is regulated to 25. Getting a gang to attend with a 20/25 ratio will be extremely rare, whereas prior to this update, it at least had a vague chance of transpiring.

Just my take, but if your smaller gang can't appeal to people, it should either be taken in a different direction, advertised to more new people, or draw upon other resources that weren't previously utilized. It's a widely believed take that none of the "new gang rpers" who are being kicked from gangs due to the member count are not going to be flocking to White Knuckle to delinquent rp in droves. That isn't because White Knuckle is bad, or should change, or hasn't even been advertised to more new people. It isn't any failing or fault of your own. It solely falls down to mismanagement of the new update. Forcefully kicking 10 members from gangs that are 35/35 won't make dozens of people encouraged to start their new gangs, or even encourage people to join those new gangs. It's a slap to the face, if anything else.

People are saying "this will help new gangs" or "this helps the majority" haven't seen that a fairly considerable bulk of the community just straight up disagree with the notion.

That said, I think something needs to be said about people just giving away higher up spots without any roleplay or IC motive. That stuff does actually hurt gang roleplay, because it encourages gang hopping and opportunism OOCly; rather than roleplay or IC developments.

Looking back, and rereading, I do see how I've missed out the point on what you've said. And, there is NO doubt in my mind that what Immertreu did, and managed to pull off, isn't something easily done, you made a community and you managed it well. Roleplay-Based, friendly, active, and well-written and overall effort from all that was majorly involved. It was a fresh daunting realisation of what GangRP should be like. But, outside of Immertreu, I still think it's not groundbreaking news that a majority of srp-players were leaning towards rolling combat and single line actions. There was no effort outside of these groups. And, that couldn't carry on if GangRP is to get to where it can be.

That is my final take on it all... I hope things pick up again for everybody. If you'd like it to be further discussed. Feel free to take it to my dms :D

 

[Benspudgydad]

+1
The change of gang caps was never asked for by the community at large. Dare I say only a small minority even wanted any sort of reform such as that.

 

[MaroonMacaron]

-1
I will add in case people are not aware, it was changed minutes after this suggestion was posted to all gangs have the ability to have 25 members.
Truly I see that the decrease of how many members a gang can have at one time will benefit gangrp and the ability for smaller gangs to have a chance.

Also, sharps aren't being removed. Only reason I can see sharps being removed is bc the EULA will force SRP too. The ONLY place that mentions anything about sharps is cam and infi want people to not immediately opt for a sharp weapon in turfs. As someone who's shop has been literally less than 10 blocks from a turf, meaning I am constantly seeing what is happening at that turf when I am at my shop [granted the entrance has now moved in recent days], majority of people are opting for extremely short actions [if people even action] and instantly pulling out sharp weapons instead of RPing out thing and letting things escalate through roleplay.

Basically in short, the changes have happened from what I see to get people to roleplay more but also give smaller gangs a chance at climbing the ranks even while there are other well established gangs already.

 

[KimiNoUso]

Reviewed
Thank you for your suggestion!

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