atjayy | Faction Limitation Suggestion

[Yume_]

good evening one and all i for one have some opinions too.

-1 overall, I disagree with your solution to the problem

There definitely is a problem present with the fact we have a limited amount of people trying for a limited amount of positions, which can be twisted into being a massive problem. This suggestion reads a lot like "no one should be allowed to eat this candy because someone else can't!" which has never been an effective way to deal with something. The solution of limiting people's ability to join multiple factions at once is not the best or only solution available.

Limiting people's ability to join only EMS or only KPD had some major unintended side effects like 6Pancake mentioned, EMS would leave the hospital faction to take a shot at KPD, unintentionally villainizing them in a sense. (Villainize isn't the right word, but it felt like it lead to feelings of comparison/negativity). That makes it an ineffective solution to the problem, we don't want to punish people for wanting to explore multiple parts of the server. Most of the EMS/KPD combination people I've seen are able to balance multiple factions fairly well, and in my experience as a faction lead people can balance around 2-3 factions without severely neglecting one. Government factions are more demanding than teams and council as well, I'd argue you can't even compare the two because I've been in council, teams, and KPD and I can tell you KPD demands a very different set of skills.

What I believe may be the actual root of the issue is that council and teams have conflicting interest, like how you can't gangrp and be in KPD at the same time. Council is meant...? to keep the school and teams in check. Does that actually happen? Only somewhat, the rivalry itself is fairly quiet and the conflict of interest isn't that major. Because of that you should be allowed to be both council and a team member, especially with what seems to be dwindling interest in teams with about ~5 players attending per tryout. (For reference, even I, the lead of the smallest faction outside of News, have about 10-15 applicants per month.) If those numbers were different, my opinion would change to say "There's a lot of people who want that role! Give it to the people who don't have another role!" which is basically how KPD/EMS apps work. Like mentioned above, if you apply to KPD while EMS you aren't prioritized.

TLDR: Do not punish people for being interested in multiple roles, or wanting to explore several sides of the server. Allow people to be in clubs/teams at the same time like we're allowed to be kpd/news or ems/government ems/kpd etc. The amount of players actively trying out and applying for factions is a fairly small amount of the entire player base, which is sad and I wish we could change that but turns out that's a different complex problem.

 

[justsimba]

-1

Now, this is a great suggestion, and I do get where you're coming from in this Jay. But like Fred, Hira, Alex, and Cloud have said, at the end of the day by limiting if you can be in EMS and KPD at the same time would only cause more issues.

Your argument that EMS and KPD have similar general tasks like answering/responding calls, going on patrols, etc is true. However, answering/responding to calls is now mostly a task that is supposed to be to the paramedic department (if any are on ofc, this changes which you know), patrolling is done by everyone in EMS atm but is a big task for paramedics. I can see possibly limiting people getting into the paramedic department if they are also KPD but otherwise the tasks EMS and KPD do are almost completely different so I see no need of bringing back the rule of people being restricted to EMS or KPD.

I would say more but you can look at the people I mentioned replies as they say it much better than I could.

 

[florestia]

-1

I disagree with most of this suggestion. Simba, Alex, Hira, Fred, and Cloud have all made really good points, and I won’t elaborate more on this as they all have already mentioned the main problems to this.

However in regards to Club/Council/Teams I believe players should be allowed to be involved in both.

 

[con]

Your argument that EMS and KPD have similar general tasks like answering/responding calls, going on patrols, etc is true. However, answering/responding to calls is now mostly a task that is supposed to be to the paramedic department (if any are on ofc, this changes which you know), patrolling is done by everyone in EMS atm but is a big task for paramedics. I can see possibly limiting people getting into the paramedic department if they are also KPD but otherwise the tasks EMS and KPD do are almost completely different so I see no need of bringing back the rule of people being restricted to EMS or KPD.

You're not wrong, however the point of the suggestion is that it isn't fair for a specific faction to be excluded from a rule that's being enforced on other factions

The school faction, for example, is an umbrella term for club lead, council, sports, SLT, and faculty, which is being restricted to allow a player to only have one role. You have to decide what you want to do most. In the same terminology, the emergency faction is an umbrella term for KPD and EMS, so there's no real logic behind this rule not applying to the emergency faction

TLDR: Do not punish people for being interested in multiple roles, or wanting to explore several sides of the server. Allow people to be in clubs/teams at the same time like we're allowed to be kpd/news or ems/government ems/kpd etc.

I agree with what Cloud said here. If this wasn't a rule in the first place, then this wouldn't be an issue, but it is. Ergo, the rule should apply to ALL factions, not just some

 

[GuttedValentine]

-1

I understand your point,, but I truly do not think we should limit to only one. I went on to read everyone's replies to try and get a proper view on both sides but still went with my original thought thinking this should not happen. Cloud, Fred, and Alex all worded things perfectly. I think club/council/teams should be allowed to be involved in both, I don't see why not?.. "It's not limiting roleplay, though. If you want to get the experience, apply for it. But applying for one of these roles, you have to be ready to give up one faction for another so another player seeking an opportunity is allowed to." Im sorry, but I do not think you need to be ready to give up one faction... Once again, I understand both sides but I do not think we need to stop this!

As for the comment on new players: most new players do not go and apply for factions, they go and get the hang of schoolrp basics (in fact, its probably like 90% who do this..).. Once being in the server for two months or more, they begin to realize the want for something new in their rp! If all new rpers wanted to join a faction, then yes this would be an issue.. But, it is not! This is not 'unfair' to new players or whatever.

 

[con]

Im sorry, but I do not think you need to be ready to give up one faction...

That is exactly the point everyone up-voting this post is trying to make. People that lead clubs, that are a part of a sports team, council, faculty, etcetera, all have to choose between one or the other, whilst the rule does not apply to KPD or EMS whatsoever. I don't know how anyone can see that as fair. This is in no way a dig at either emergency faction lead, as I know Yonio heavily prioritises people not in EMS when it comes to applications for KPD

The point is that this rule has already heavily effected the school faction as a whole and everyone apart, whereas the emergency faction is left completely unrattled. If this rule is something that's set in stone, no negotation, then why is the emergency faction an exception?

I disagree. From what I've seen, and what recent waves have shown, more often than not if a police faction member applies to the hospital faction, they will get in. Below's a composite of results for EMS applications since the start of the year, only considering police applicants;

Spoiler: RESULTS

Even before this year, this same trend of KPD members getting into EMS was still very much active

^^^
This is also a huge factor to take into consideration

 

[Ghostfire]

As for the comment on new players: most new players do not go and apply for factions, they go and get the hang of schoolrp basics (in fact, its probably like 90% who do this..).. Once being in the server for two months or more, they begin to realize the want for something new in their rp! If all new rpers wanted to join a faction, then yes this would be an issue.. But, it is not! This is not 'unfair' to new players or whatever.

When we say new players, we mean people who aren't already a part of these factions and want a shot at either or

---

Limiting people's ability to join only EMS or only KPD had some major unintended side effects like 6Pancake mentioned, EMS would leave the hospital faction to take a shot at KPD, unintentionally villainizing them in a sense.

This has already happened to council and sports teams. Those who were on both were forced to pick either or due to the new changes. It's unfortunate for these players who were given the ultimatum, however, that's how it is

This suggestion reads a lot like "no one should be allowed to eat this candy because someone else can't!" which has never been an effective way to deal with something. The solution of limiting people's ability to join multiple factions at once is not the best or only solution available.

The way I see it, or at least the way I'm putting it, it's more of a "you can choose one candy or the other." Shouldn't we share the candy with other people? Because, like I said, that's the way I see it; allowing people to have more candy than others makes it so the others can't have any.

The amount of players actively trying out and applying for factions is a fairly small amount of the entire player base,

While it's not exactly a majority of the player base applying for factions, it's a substantial amount, especially for competitive factions like any of the emergency factions. This is exactly why I think players who're thinking of applying for both, or are already on both, should have to choose between the two to allow spots to open up for other players who wish to experience roleplay as a part of an emergency worker, whether it be as an officer or a part of the hospital staff

Most of the EMS/KPD combination people I've seen are able to balance multiple factions fairly well, and in my experience as a faction lead people can balance around 2-3 factions without severely neglecting one.

As forementioned, this isn't exactly the problem. You may read up at one of my previous responses to see what I said about this

Do not punish people for being interested in multiple roles, or wanting to explore several sides of the server.

The idea proposed doesn't exactly punish players for being interested in multiple roles, or exploring different parts of the server. It simply limits a player from obtaining more roles than necessary, as to allow other players to have a chance at having some that they desire as well. While they'll still be allowed to apply to other factions that aren't emergency related (eg. faculty or reporter) they just can't apply for the other emergency faction.

---

the tasks EMS and KPD do are almost completely different so I see no need of bringing back the rule of people being restricted to EMS or KPD.

So are teachers/professors' and employees' duties, but look at how that went for them; employees can't be teachers and vice versa. They both work in the same group of "faculty", similar to KPD's and EMS's emergency faction

---

For any future replies, please understand that the point of this suggestion is not specifically to limit KPD and EMS for having players in the same faction, however, the point is that if other factions with similarities must have these restrictions, that it'd make sense for the emergency factions to have them as well. But even then, due to the amount of competition for these factions, I still believe that KPD and EMS should not be allowed to be on same factions. There were three pages of applications for both the last applications for each faction, and due to the competitive nature of these factions, spots should be picked more decisively and narrowed down a little more. Besides, as much as it may not be admitted, being in either or creates a connection between a faction member and the other faction, leading them to have a higher chance of acceptance regardless of already being in the "opposing" faction

 

[ClownRP]

+1

I understand where both sides are coming from although, in my opinion because of how close the two factions (EMS and KPD) it causes biased when applications happen whether it's realized or not. Touching on what Ghost had shown earlier, going from KPD -> EMS had an 80% acceptance rate which is very high, I do get that you get writing experience while in KPD and you expand your knowledge greatly on roleplay but still there are other applicants that aren't in a faction which apply and get simply denied for the fact that there are "Better suited applicants" which usually the "Better suited applicants" are people that are in a faction.

Despite what people say there will always be biased when it comes to applications even if you say that "You aren't biased" you'll subconsciously be leaning towards accepting your friend or somebody you're close with into a faction. From what I've seen most of the people that have -1'd or disagree with the topic are either in both factions or have close friends in both faction. I can see how it "Wouldn't be fair to need to choose" but it's better than allowing bias push people that are applying for either faction lift them to getting accepted, with seeing how much larger the player base has gotten over the years it's not fair for the people who are interested in either faction and have good applications/potential but are denied because somebody in KPD/EMS took the spot. Everybody says that the people who are in a faction are pushed to the very back of acceptance pool but nearly every wave there's somebody from the two factions joining the other.

I think a solution is to not allow people to join factions that are in the same group or directly conflict each other, for instance KPD can't join EMS since they both fall under the "Emergency Services" group and they can't join BMD/GOV because they directly conflict with each other. Same with faculty and student factions like teams, clubs, and council.

It isn't about trying to manage your time between the two factions or any multiple factions but even if it was most people who play SRP are highschoolers which is arguably the most important part of your student life. Trying to manage your school work and extracurricular activities (If you do any) and TWO factions which require your attention is very difficult to maintain.

 

[atjayy]

Either cut back on limiting students from the school faction, or apply the same rule within the Emergency division. It's not impossible. I have been dmed, and show screenshots of my friends having to give up a faction just because a rule stated that they weren't allowed to do both on an account. While I understand where the negatives are coming, especially with cloud's point standing high on the suggestion post, it should be a rule established within EVERY faction, and not just a handful. I get it, I do, Council is in check of the students and the sports teams, but this rarely ever happens.

If this rule was already established, or never enforced, there wouldn't be a need to make a suggestion on it. However, our point still stands; if school can't do it, Emergency can't either.

---

This suggestion reads a lot like "no one should be allowed to eat this candy because someone else can't!" which has never been an effective way to deal with something.

Think of the candy as a certain brand. There's multiple flavors, and yet everyone enjoys it because it's good. Some people want to try that new kind of candy, but some of the people who already had one flavor have taken the other from them. Let's take a look at the School faction again, using candy as a base. My friends have had to pick between two similar candies, and all for what? To allow new people to give it a try? It doesn't add up. - I get that these rules are enforced for a reason, and by no means do I disrespect the rules that help build the server's factions, but please make it fair for EVERYONE.

Let me reword the suggestion. -- Either cut back on this rule, or change it so it's fair for everyone!! This rule can still be applied if it were to be Government applying for KPD, simply due to other reasons I won't state, as well as the Crime Faction applying for KPD -- those rules can stay. They've been made aware of already.

Not to mention, this rule about team members not allowed to be on council or being a club leader hasn't been enforced until recently. A lot of Councillors had to quit due to the rule, and I had to trash an entire application because of it. It was always allowed before, but why isn't it now? This isn't fair to those who were already on a team - no way at all.

Again, being in KPD and EMS on two separate accounts doesn't always strike an issue with activity. As a football captain, a gang lead, AND EMS, I can tackle all three of these with ease. I completely see why you guys would be negative against this. But please.. READ INTO IT!!!!

 

[asp!]

-1
There's no point in limiting the Emergency faction just because another faction has a limit. Yes, KPD and EMS are kind-of intertwined, but that doesn't make them as similar as to something like HS Teacher and Professor. I do agree on letting go of the limit when it comes to something like club leader and student council, but creating more limits doesn't solve the problem.

 

[atjayy]

-1
There's no point in limiting the Emergency faction just because another faction has a limit. Yes, KPD and EMS are kind-of intertwined, but that doesn't make them as similar as to something like HS Teacher and Professor. I do agree on letting go of the limit when it comes to something like club leader and student council, but creating more limits doesn't solve the problem.

he never once said anything about teacher and professor… he said teacher/professor

 

[Ghostfire]

There's no point in limiting the Emergency faction just because another faction has a limit. Yes, KPD and EMS are kind-of intertwined, but that doesn't make them as similar as to something like HS Teacher and Professor. I do agree on letting go of the limit when it comes to something like club leader and student council, but creating more limits doesn't solve the problem.

As forementioned, there is a point in limiting the emergency faction! I encourage you to read up before posting your response; not only this, but we're comparing teacher/professor to employees, which of course have their similarities, but they've also got their unique features, just like the two emergency factions. With that in mind, I encourage you to reconsider the suggestion as a whole

 

[asp!]

but we're comparing teacher/professor to employees

he never once said anything about teacher and professor… he said teacher/professor

Apologies for misunderstanding it in that case, but even then I don't agree on adding a limit to the Emergency factions, like I mentioned earlier. I do think a better solution to the issue with the other factions would be to let go of the limit on those. It's the same that has been mentioned earlier, if a player is able to handle multiple factions without severely neglecting any of them, why shouldn't they be able to do that?

 

[Ghostfire]

if a player is able to handle multiple factions without severely neglecting any of them, why shouldn't they be able to do that?

The reason we're arguing is because the problem isn't people are unable to meet their quota in a faction, or to not be active enough in it, it's due to the fact that we, or at least I, think this slot in a faction should go to a player who isn't in the emergency faction at all, instead of giving it to someone that's already in one part of it. As forementioned, due to the similarities between the two, and the competitivity, it may be in the faction leads' best interest so other players can have a higher chance at being a part of at least one part of the emergency faction

 

[PIZA_OP]

+1

 

[cho0ii]

+1

I think this should be an added limitation. More often or not spaces for players who haven't been in EMS or other factions are taken up by players who are currently KPD. As Ghost showed, this is a common trend throughout all applications. I think the limitation will allow more players to joint the emergency factions and have more active factions.

 

[HATOLA]

huge +1 unless they will remove the stupid rule against council & club/sport team

 

[philbertman42]

That's a lot of words... Too bad I ain't readin' em. I'll keep my stance short, since everybody else seems fired up enough to write ten page essays.

Players shouldn't be allowed to join factions that are too similar to one they are currently in (such as sports and council, BMD with KPD, etc). I've seen players hog roles in various factions for months at a time, yet only prioritize one account that they care about and do the bare minimum for the rest. I'm guilty of it, and I'd argue most multi-faction players are, too.

If you want to try different types of roleplay entirely, cool; if you just want to do the same from a different perspective, please switch to the other faction and open your previous role for someone else. That basic etiquette would be the most optimal solution to this issue.

 

[draculary]

I think most people think jays tryna aim specifically for KPD and EMS but is really just trying to make a comparison and make it fair for factions. I don't really see the issue with someone in a sport wanting to apply for council because I don't see the correlation. Maybe because I haven't been in council or read up on it but the things they do, don't seem really similar & my bad if I'm wrong gang. I'm in both factions myself so there isn't much I can really say on that but to agree that things should be set fairly, and just let people on sports apply for council or club lead!! so +1 I think?

 

[lophey]

+1, lots of conversion on this topic yall, had to read about a whole book to get to my opinion LOLL. Gonna try to keep this simple. What Jay said below is exactly my standpoint on this:

Either cut back on this rule, or change it so it's fair for everyone!! This rule can still be applied if it were to be Government applying for KPD, simply due to other reasons I won't state, as well as the Crime Faction applying for KPD -- those rules can stay. They've been made aware of already.

Lastly, although this was backtracked... for those thinking the same thing, other than possible practice/meeting times nothing would conflict. While on a team it is not a must to JockRP or even engage in rivalry. In fact, I believe with those who do not wish to engage in JockRP or Rivalry in mind, Tippie recently began to attempt to reduce ANY "must" people would feel to engage! (So sorry if this didn't make sense :3)