FEEDBACK | Kill Permissions Re-Evaluation

[Ga14cticia]

IGN: hebwig
DATE: 03/07/2022
WHAT YOU WANT TO SUGGEST OR MENTION: Make kill permissions only possible to be used if the person consents through OOC means to have their character permanently killed. This is the suggestion simplified down to one sentence; but, it goes a bit more in-depth. Bear with me, the crime faction lead, and take my input on how this would benefit & what other changes would come with it.
HOW WILL THIS BENEFIT THE SERVER/COMMUNITY?:

INTRO:
Roleplay communities, outside of Minecraft and within Minecraft, frown upon permanent/forced character death. Completely deleting a character from a setting’s existence is really ridiculous and one of the many reasons why GangRP has the reputation it has (which then leads to other issues within said portion of the server). Requiring that kill permissions become an OOC consent-based system will limit these deaths, promote players into writing fleshed-out characters, and discourage those who oftentimes use throwaways.

Please note that this suggestion has already been discussed with a few staff members, including the owner. This thread is being created so that players can give their input on the suggestion. We value feedback and would like other perspectives before going through with the suggestion above. If possible, read through every point mentioned before making a response as they are to be considered in any feedback.



Again, take the above into account. These are not the only changes that would take place in the next few weeks (if enough feedback is given and considered); but, these are the ones that are just related to this massive change. If you choose to respond or react to this feedback, please give reasoning behind it as this thread is being monitored by staff and will be reviewed by staff when the next period for reviewing feedback messages rolls around.

Thank you for any input! Both myself and the staff members of SchoolRP are grateful to you, for both reading this thread and for potentially leaving a response. Note that if you have any other points/benefits worth mentioning, this thread will be edited to include them. Take care.

Some points you bring up are indeed valid, although, maybe there is another way around the problem of driving other players off.

First off, people will of course be exploiting this rule. For example, I know a lot of players involved with crime don't really give a flying **** about the RP or lore behind kills, because I remember I did that. They just find it fun to kill, and, that's fair enough I guess. They wouldn't want their chars to die, because of "kill count", and yeah, that's stupid as all hell.

I think we could narrow down on how you gain permissions, possibly adjusting the ruleset on non-crimeRPers.


I have many other points to bring up, although, I don't have the time atm.

 

[xBonnie]

+1

I don’t have a big paragraph to add to this, you’ve summed it up pretty good.

 

[SapouT]

IGN: hebwig
DATE: 03/07/2022
WHAT YOU WANT TO SUGGEST OR MENTION: Make kill permissions only possible to be used if the person consents through OOC means to have their character permanently killed. This is the suggestion simplified down to one sentence; but, it goes a bit more in-depth. Bear with me, the crime faction lead, and take my input on how this would benefit & what other changes would come with it.
HOW WILL THIS BENEFIT THE SERVER/COMMUNITY?:

INTRO:
Roleplay communities, outside of Minecraft and within Minecraft, frown upon permanent/forced character death. Completely deleting a character from a setting’s existence is really ridiculous and one of the many reasons why GangRP has the reputation it has (which then leads to other issues within said portion of the server). Requiring that kill permissions become an OOC consent-based system will limit these deaths, promote players into writing fleshed-out characters, and discourage those who oftentimes use throwaways.

Please note that this suggestion has already been discussed with a few staff members, including the owner. This thread is being created so that players can give their input on the suggestion. We value feedback and would like other perspectives before going through with the suggestion above. If possible, read through every point mentioned before making a response as they are to be considered in any feedback.



Again, take the above into account. These are not the only changes that would take place in the next few weeks (if enough feedback is given and considered); but, these are the ones that are just related to this massive change. If you choose to respond or react to this feedback, please give reasoning behind it as this thread is being monitored by staff and will be reviewed by staff when the next period for reviewing feedback messages rolls around.

Thank you for any input! Both myself and the staff members of SchoolRP are grateful to you, for both reading this thread and for potentially leaving a response. Note that if you have any other points/benefits worth mentioning, this thread will be edited to include them. Take care.

To be honest that’s an unrealistic suggestion, Gangrp is all about risk and success. People have the choice to never die by not risking. You can also gangrp on low risk. To get perms you need to risk. If you don’t wanna get killed then don’t kill yourself. But being able to oocly consent to not die will completely erase killing forever cuz no one will ever consent. The perms are made in a way so that it’s fair for everyone. Players have the way to even gangrp and not die. Even if they want to kill etc they can always rely on passed perms instead of having to risk to get perms by majoring or giving perms. And at the end of the day is you don’t wanna get killed don’t kill. Lastly saying in ooc if u consent to die is extremely unrealistic. In the same way that is you for example stabbed a criminals limb out irl you would get killed, in the same way you die in game. Gangrp is about the competition of who kill/majors who or who damages the enemy gang, it’s a never ending war. -1

 

[SapouT]

IGN: hebwig
DATE: 03/07/2022
WHAT YOU WANT TO SUGGEST OR MENTION: Make kill permissions only possible to be used if the person consents through OOC means to have their character permanently killed. This is the suggestion simplified down to one sentence; but, it goes a bit more in-depth. Bear with me, the crime faction lead, and take my input on how this would benefit & what other changes would come with it.
HOW WILL THIS BENEFIT THE SERVER/COMMUNITY?:

INTRO:
Roleplay communities, outside of Minecraft and within Minecraft, frown upon permanent/forced character death. Completely deleting a character from a setting’s existence is really ridiculous and one of the many reasons why GangRP has the reputation it has (which then leads to other issues within said portion of the server). Requiring that kill permissions become an OOC consent-based system will limit these deaths, promote players into writing fleshed-out characters, and discourage those who oftentimes use throwaways.

Please note that this suggestion has already been discussed with a few staff members, including the owner. This thread is being created so that players can give their input on the suggestion. We value feedback and would like other perspectives before going through with the suggestion above. If possible, read through every point mentioned before making a response as they are to be considered in any feedback.



Again, take the above into account. These are not the only changes that would take place in the next few weeks (if enough feedback is given and considered); but, these are the ones that are just related to this massive change. If you choose to respond or react to this feedback, please give reasoning behind it as this thread is being monitored by staff and will be reviewed by staff when the next period for reviewing feedback messages rolls around.

Thank you for any input! Both myself and the staff members of SchoolRP are grateful to you, for both reading this thread and for potentially leaving a response. Note that if you have any other points/benefits worth mentioning, this thread will be edited to include them. Take care.

To be honest that’s an unrealistic suggestion, Gangrp is all about risk and success. People have the choice to never die by not risking. You can also gangrp on low risk. To get perms you need to risk. If you don’t wanna get killed then don’t kill yourself. But being able to oocly consent to not die will completely erase killing forever cuz no one will ever consent. The perms are made in a way so that it’s fair for everyone. Players have the way to even gangrp and not die. Even if they want to kill etc they can always rely on passed perms instead of having to risk to get perms by majoring or giving perms. And at the end of the day is you don’t wanna get killed don’t kill. Lastly saying in ooc if u consent to die is extremely unrealistic. In the same way that is you for example stabbed a criminals limb out irl you would get killed, in the same way you die in game. Gangrp is about the competition of who kill/majors who or who damages the enemy gang, it’s a never ending war. -1

 

[Jtth_]

[-1] I have been playing srp for around a year and ever since I joined kills were permanent. My question is, why would anyone give consent to actually die?? This moves to further problems such as: if for example someone left a verified gang, his character got all the information on the gang and he wants to snitch. Normally the lead along with the gang would act on kps and avoid any info being spilled. With these changed rules though the former member for example can easily say "I dont consent" that easy a gang is doomed. The real image is that gangrp was and will always be a risk. Removing that risk just ruins it fully. It's like a game that you cant lose and how long will it take people to get bored with it?. I understand the pain of losing a character but it is part of the game and if you chose to gangrp you have to go through it. I also have a character that I would be sad to lose but removing the risks of losing a character makes it easy. Instead of playing smart, everyone can just not consent into a permanent kill and gangrp as we knew it will just not work. Right now this suggestion will cause arrests to rise and gangrp to slowly die. People vote yes because obviously gangrp was always cool looking and the idea of gangrp without losing characters sounds awesome bit gangrp will get pointless after this.
Everyone will now be able to do it and it will not longer have anything interesting. It will lose all source of competition and everything will change as we knew. What's the point in leading a verified gang if you cant do pretty much anything with the people leaving or if you cant do anything in general that others cant. Stronger gangs always killed each other but now all of this has to change
I can understand that after constant whining of losing characters and calling gangrp toxic, gamble, and advising people not to go into it staff decided this rule but to be honest we should not change this fir the people that want to gangrp without a risk. What could happen is that those people stay out of gangrp until they realise that Its Just A Game it's an imaginary person in a game if they cant stand losing their character the answer is simple Don't gangrp. Plus verified gang leaders should still have the ability to use kps on former members for obvious reasons. Leaving a gang is the ultimate betrayal. A leader gets motivated to erase the former member's full existence in order to avoid information being spilled. Why is that changing? ? ?Right now verified gangs get nerfed too and the risk gets removed again. WHY do you want gangrp to NOT have a risk. Thats how gangrp always were RISKY. It removes all motivation to gangrp. And ill agree with kana here. There is no risk in joining and it almost allows players to join a verified gang, buy verified weapons and then leave the same day not to mention that they will claim to have ic info using it against the gang after. This whole new update makes no sense. It is there to make gangrp friendly to those that are not fit for it and used to throw dirt on it as well as advising new players to stay away from it. This is the actual problem with gangrp. It changes frequently to stay friendly for those that never liked it or its risks. Gangrp without risks is simply not gangrp. I don't know if many enjoy it but I don't having to discuss oocly about using kps or typing huge paragraphs with others for no reason(no reason because even if you win the paragraph fight there are no consequences). Also take a look at the +1s, Lots of them are from people that used to hate on gangrp but wow when gangrp loses its risk of losing a character suddenly its a +1. Wasn't the whole point of srp to not take character's deaths oocly and be sad about them? This update is not needed considering the fact that a huge amount of gangrp activities gets voided daily because people start whining when they lose their character. Personally I can't find a reason why this update will make gangrp fun. It will no longer be gangrp it will just be a bunch of players writting a story about a random character they thought of and value precious enough to ruin the game for everyone removing the traits that make it a game. Its a non competitive, without the ability to win or lose as well as any risk to make it interesting or to make it easy for evryone. In other words pointless

In Addition., How about the poor gangs that are mainly killing gangs ? This suggestion will destroy them fully. Losing is always part of a game and most mature people should not have a problem with losing. Why ruin it? Why can't the ones that cannot accept losing in a game just stay out of gangrp and instead they have to change gangrp for the ones that can easily lose and still have fun in this. Most of the people will think I am toxic but it is what it is. Gangrp have been like thisever since i joined the server and people got used to it. Don't change it, Instead allow players to chose if they want to take the risk or not. And its not like gangrp started dying due to the fact that people started losing characters. It started having issues when non gangrpers started hating on it because when they tried it they couldn't compete with the ones that had way more experience. Making it easy for everyone just ruins it for the ones that spent hours, days, months or even years gangrping and suddenly they can't even kill people that just joined gangrp. It is unfair this way. The problem is not with gangrp. Its the people that spent one week in a developing gang and then decided that gangrp is not worth it and started throwing dirt on it. And for those people you are changing it. Leaving the ones that actually loved gangrp even when it started flopping unsatisfied. I am one of them. When gangrp flopped and pretty much all of my friends quit srp or gangrp I stayed there and decided to open a gangdoing my best to save it. And suddenly gangrp changes for the ones that made it flop. I understand people's side that want the ooc consent based kps but Its pointless. Thats why gangrp was always interesting, Because it actually had a risk and a reason to get better, A reason to compete and the passion of always trying to improve, To reach the top. Thats what makes this game fun. A game with no risk, no competition and no winners or losers will eventually get boring.

-I might have repeated myself my bad if i did so, I am just a bit tired. I tried to sum up in a paragraph the reason why its a BIG -1 from me and I hope to find people that will understand this suggestion.

 

[NoZinth]

Biggest +1 I've ever given, don't be scared of change people! Change is good.

 

[MrScott]

This is an excellent idea, but it wouldn't work. Although I'm a die-hard gangRolepalyer and respect the majors and kps perms without trying to get most situations voided, I am pretty attached to my character/characters. I, for one, would say I won’t let you kill me oocly. I think this also Isn't a good idea because if you don't want you're character kpsed, you don't give out perms I think personally, it's pretty hard to get perms on people anyway, and if someone wants perms so bad that they would do anything, perm baiting rules are already set in place.

So although I love the idea and you put a shit tone of work into it,
-1

 

[The_eight8]

-1, honestly is kind of a waste of staff's time

 

[Iris.fi]

+1, good reasoning, I like the idea

 

[T3rract]

I think you're undermining Prosthettics in that sense. He wasn't staff for at least half of the time that he had his character and, again, there is no issue with planned events or literally hiring other people to do the job for him. This isn't meant to be an "I love Prosthettics!" post but just an example of how someone was able to work around the risks. Hiring other people to do the job is an example of avoiding the risks; but I wouldn't go and say that him being staff is the ultimate reason why his character has the reputation he does. He's just an example, once more. Just because he was a staff member doesn't mean he was the only one who knew GangRP rules. . .if you read the rules & involve yourself in the crime faction enough, you will have just as much knowledge.

Being scared from the risk is the point, yep. Saying that, however, is overlooking the benefits that come with making kill permissions required to be consented upon. Sure, it eliminates the part of the risk, but it also eliminates a lot of the issues that GangRP has been facing (refer to my replies and the original post itself for elaboration on those issues and how it'll help); so, why not? If it helps, we should consider it and push forward it. Obviously, people can evade the risks currently within GangRP and they have (again, using Prosthettics as a specific example), but this entire thing is not about risks. Try to look at it from a broader perspective and gather how many benefits it would bring rather than cons. I hope this explains a lot of what I'm trying to say & gives a resolution to your concerns.



I agree! That's why arrests don't lead to kill permissions. A person only has unconsented kill permissions on a police officer if that police officer attempts to kill that criminal (using a gun). The KPD are super cool.



This is exactly why we're introducing OOC consent for kill permissions! Forced / permanent character death is frowned upon in other roleplay communities. Understand that this situation is one of the exemptions from "applying all real life principles to the roleplay world" — we shouldn't. A cop being a cop and a soldier being a soldier would be an IC motive (if we had soldiers, you know); but, consent has to take place for the kill to occur. That's the whole idea for this suggestion. I hope this helps!

cool suggestion but fr prosthettics had access to more things in gangrp bcs he was a staff. nowadays when u try n talk to a staff bout gangrp events they just totally completely ignore u so no this suggestion will only benefit non gangrp players and make gangrp so boring cuz not everything has to be detailed or go smooth

 

[lowkeyHades]

+0.8
-0.2

I'm an EMS worker, KPD Cadet and crimerper myself, and obviously I know y'all's crazy gangrp stuff. I think this idea is absolutely fanatic. However how can we then stop the cycle of majors being the new bait? I'd suggest adding an extra set of perms, not sure what yet but something just to sorta give the cycle some relief from minors -> majors. My point is better laid out in others arguements but i honestly love the amount of dedication your putting into gangrp as a whole heb <3

 

[Infi]

+1

 

[Yonio]

To clear things up, I'll try to compile all the mentioned cons to this suggestion. Note I may or may not agree with these statements, but maybe compiling all issues could help clear up some people's minds:

- If we make KPS (generally) OOC-consented, people will never agree to allow other people to kill their character
- Limiting KPS will "erase" the risk of GangRP
- Limiting KPS will result in people aiming for Major rather than KPS
- GangRP and, in consequence, KPD activity will decrease

Please let me know if I missed anything from here

 

[Prosthettics]

-1

With major assault permissions being the new norm, players can now keep their mangled characters, sure, however that just means that there's going to be loads of amputees running around. If I were a brand new player logging on to see that loads of people have 'missing arm/leg' in their description, that'd be a little concerning. The playerbase isn't reliable enough to handle this because I doubt the majority will consent to their character being killed from either being too attached or since everyone trying to be Mike Akihito 2.0


Characters can still be 'killed' in terms of making them unplayable, which is actually arguably more violent because you have to specify cutting out eyes, removing limbs, tongues, stabbing ear drums, all of that instead of just making one swift killing action

 

[ReaperLove]

-1 /+0.5 I dont like the idea personally
To be fair srp in the gangrp side of things gets dry sometimes u can find anything to do at all gaining perms has gotten harder cause most ppl won’t act on them.Yeah I see the pros but their is also lots of cons.A lot of ppl I know who gangrped for a long time had a really hard time adjusting to the new rules as it is I know I’m just being repetitive.Sounds like a cool idea after all their was a time gangrp was only all about fists fights still be glad to try it out.

 

[Jtth_]

To clear things up, I'll try to compile all the mentioned cons to this suggestion. Note I may or may not agree with these statements, but maybe compiling all issues could help clear up some people's minds:

- If we make KPS (generally) OOC-consented, people will never agree to allow other people to kill their character
- Limiting KPS will "erase" the risk of GangRP
- Limiting KPS will result in people aiming for Major rather than KPS
- GangRP and, in consequence, KPD activity will decrease

Please let me know if I missed anything from here

Yonio is right and I'd like to add, Both Kpd and gangrp require a risk that people take before joining. Limiting kps will have some more disadvantages that yonio maybe forgot to mention
-Non realistic lifes
what is a character? It's a minecraft version of a human. Sometimes a character has to permanently die and it is unrealistic for that character to not die permanently. In addition this could lead to people being able to do all kinds of things without getting punished Icly. For example leaving a verified gang no longer has any effects to the former member because if we get realistic No One will consent to die.
--Less activity within gangrp as well as gangrp and kpdrp getting boring

It is obvious why removing the risk off a game as well as the ability to win or lose will make the game get boring and of course activity in both will slowly start dying
- Extra
gangrp had some common traits that most people hate because they are not ready to accept defeat. Changing gangrp will not benefit those people fully but instead will cause the old audience to dislike it. Many people have been gangrping for even years to reach a certain level and who this update all of their constant trying will prove useless. In addition kpd is close to gangrp and it will have the same issues

 

[TrapstarRp]

To clear things up, I'll try to compile all the mentioned cons to this suggestion. Note I may or may not agree with these statements, but maybe compiling all issues could help clear up some people's minds:

- If we make KPS (generally) OOC-consented, people will never agree to allow other people to kill their character
- Limiting KPS will "erase" the risk of GangRP
- Limiting KPS will result in people aiming for Major rather than KPS
- GangRP and, in consequence, KPD activity will decrease

Please let me know if I missed anything from here

I think setting some sort of regulation or wtv as if like you kill my member or you are fighting my member kps consented that I am able to join in kps consented to kill you as you’ve already agreed for them as as if you killed my member I find out it is you I kept to kill you with the need of consent, I think finally giving majors a bleedout could also be added but I feel others would hold be there which would seem unfair but as well as I think that’s a bit change and seems unlikely in srp (I don’t exactly expect that to happen, just an idea)

 

[Mariav]

+1
I can't understand in which world it's normal or realistic for most murderers to be teenagers in high school and how all of them have such "developed" characters that don't feel any remorse/fear for killing someone and tbh dying for them is pretty lame when you actually have a developed character

Edit: I'm sick of finding gang rp'ers with a full-body suit with trollish names like Kanye West The Third that doesn't have any backstory whatsoever and the only thing they do is put a mask in front of a cop, run, get tased, don't pain RP and just yell "KILL HIM"

 

[TrapstarRp]

+1
I can't understand in which world it's normal or realistic for most murderers to be teenagers in high school and how all of them have such "developed" characters that don't feel any remorse/fear for killing someone and tbh dying for them is pretty lame when you actually have a developed characher

Agreed, lemme add a bit more I agree cause when I gangrp and die it is mostly from people that have VERY little backstory, lore, etc on their character with seems unfair to most.

 

[Yonio]

Just pointing something out - If you agree to give out Kill Perms to player X, player X you will automatically also have Kill Perms on player X as explained in the thread. I believe people are misunderstanding this as "If I agree to KPS, my character will 100% die" when in reality it is not like this. If you agree to the perms, you can actually even be the first one to action. Let's say that you agree to giving me KPS, so I start running up to you with a knife. You run off, but turn around pulling out a katana and stabbing me without allowing me to even get close to you.

This suggestion will allow people who wish to engage in this sort of roleplay to ALSO have the possibility of retaliating and actually end up winning despite being the one allowing the other player to kill you